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BRANGLE FAMILY ROOM - 49
Given RGW's avatar, I'm wondering his opinion about a certain Southern California airport that wants to change its name...
The_Spider wrote:
I agree with pretty much all of this in a sense. But just because other countries are and were worse than us doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't stop glorifying people who were practitioners of slavery. There's reason why we don't have Benedict Arnold statues or streets named for him. and in my opinion, he is effectively the same as Robert E. Lee et al; an enemy combatant who assisted in the killing of American citizens during a war.
It's like the Lebron James thing with Hong Kong. He preaches about how he's socially conscious and then straight up told a GM to not talk about China's mistreatment about HK because it might cost James money. The faux woke on the far left are the most annoying people currently going.
That being said, changing the name of the John Wayne airport in CA would be a total joke.
"I need to be myself. I can't be no one else." - Noel Gallagher
Hate to tell you this Celt, but if you were your age or so in Mississippi in 1862, you would have very likely been a 'treasonous racist'. It wasn't as if the Northerners generally weren't at that time as well any way. Without a little bit of luck in 1776, I suppose we would be viewing Washington etc as 'treasonous losers' as well. Do you think any of these guys would be pro-slavery if they were born/alive today? That being said, I don't particularly care about the Confederate "heritage", and I don't get really worked up one way or the other about whether some statues should come down, but I do have a significant problem with mobs taking it upon themselves to take them down. If the town votes or whatever, so be it, although it is clear the goal of the mobs is hardly limited to the measured removal of the worst offending statues, but en masse destruction for the sake of destruction. They have taken down multiple statues dedicated to abolitionists. In a funny story they even defaced a statue of the guy who wrote Don Qioxote (the guy who kept fighting windmills so he could imagine himself a chivalrous night fighting real monsters) . History has generally been awful, but if these people want to combat slavery, instead of bringing down statues tangentially related to it, they could have a go at the millions enslaved worldwide TODAY.
I agree with pretty much all of this in a sense. But just because other countries are and were worse than us doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't stop glorifying people who were practitioners of slavery. There's reason why we don't have Benedict Arnold statues or streets named for him. and in my opinion, he is effectively the same as Robert E. Lee et al; an enemy combatant who assisted in the killing of American citizens during a war.
It's like the Lebron James thing with Hong Kong. He preaches about how he's socially conscious and then straight up told a GM to not talk about China's mistreatment about HK because it might cost James money. The faux woke on the far left are the most annoying people currently going.
That being said, changing the name of the John Wayne airport in CA would be a total joke.
"I need to be myself. I can't be no one else." - Noel Gallagher
My point isn't 'other countries are worse' it's that these people dont really care about that much about slavery, this is all vain, self glorifying virtue signaling. They want to view themselves like the actual heroes of the past (say the people who actually fought in Normandy) so they need to see Nazis everywhere to fight against (i.e. the windmills Don Quioxte fought) The decisions on whether statutes should come down, should be left at as local a municipality as appropriate. Tearing down these statues does nothing to combat the problem of slavery TODAY, all it is pathetic self flagellation and white guilt. Slavery was terrible, of course, but this idea that this is some uniquely American institution, and that America is uniquely evil in this sense is becoming a destructive cultural problem.
You've brought up Benedict Arnold several times, but I don't really see the point. Robert E. Lee was a West Point graduate who decided to fight with his home state of Virginia at the outset of the war. He did not conspire to divulge sensitive information to the enemy or surrender some key location. They aren't viewed the same becuase they aren't nearly the same, and if Benedict Arnold had announced he was joining the British on July 5th, no one would know his name. Do you view the founding fathers as traitors, or does their good fortune in battle, for example, the Long Island campaign that Washington almost lost the Revolution in, get wiped clean because of our ultimate victory?
---This message was edited on 02:26PM Jun 28, 2020---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
You've brought up Benedict Arnold several times, but I don't really see the point. Robert E. Lee was a West Point graduate who decided to fight with his home state of Virginia at the outset of the war. He did not conspire to divulge sensitive information to the enemy or surrender some key location. They aren't viewed the same becuase they aren't nearly the same, and if Benedict Arnold had announced he was joining the British on July 5th, no one would know his name. Do you view the founding fathers as traitors, or does their good fortune in battle, for example, the Long Island campaign that Washington almost lost the Revolution in, get wiped clean because of our ultimate victory?
---This message was edited on 02:26PM Jun 28, 2020---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
There's no doubt this is virtual signaling to the nth degree but while I normally have a problem with it, ie in the tv shows who have had episodes taken down recently, I don't really have an issue with this avenue. I know ultimately the movement is littered with hypocrites but I think they've managed to be correct on this thing in spite of themselves.
Your second paragraph is valid in that history is written by the victors. I think Lee's education is wholly irrelevant and can understand that Lee wanted to fight for his home state, but that just means Lee chose loyalty to Virginia over anything else, which is more blind patriotism than genuine patriotism.
Lee is the most interesting case since he is one if the finest generals ever produced but he ultimately committed treason. The confederacy also lost and it just seems so not America-like to honor the losing side in any capacity.
"I need to be myself. I can't be no one else." - Noel Gallagher
Your second paragraph is valid in that history is written by the victors. I think Lee's education is wholly irrelevant and can understand that Lee wanted to fight for his home state, but that just means Lee chose loyalty to Virginia over anything else, which is more blind patriotism than genuine patriotism.
Lee is the most interesting case since he is one if the finest generals ever produced but he ultimately committed treason. The confederacy also lost and it just seems so not America-like to honor the losing side in any capacity.
"I need to be myself. I can't be no one else." - Noel Gallagher
Yes Lee's education is irrelevant, but I heard it phrased in a similar way 'west point grad ...' in a different context and it must have stuck with me.
Lee is the most interesting case since he is one if the finest generals ever produced but he ultimately committed treason. The confederacy also lost and it just seems so not America-like to honor the losing side in any capacity.
I don't really understand this, I never viewed this as an American value/attitude (we have a statue of Rocky in Philly as I'm sure you know) afterall
. Treason in itself is not inherently evil, to risk invoking Godwin's law, those who commited treason against the third reich are among the first who should have statues minted. I'm not comparing that to Lee, just making a point about treason as a value judgement.
I agree with Hooves, I think, that basically the 'we can't forget our history' argument is sort of a red herring. No one really learns history from statues, aside from certain specific contexts (battlefield memorials/museums etc). At the same time, most of these statues are to commemorate people for a specific act or a role in a major event, not generally to say 'this guy was swell!' . Martin Luther King's views on gays for example, would certainly be retrograde today, where does that leave MLK day and the 9 million streets named after him?
I don't really care all that much about the statue argument, again, but I find the vigilantism in destroying these statues en masse, a major problem.
---This message was edited on 07:40PM Jun 28, 2020---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Lee is the most interesting case since he is one if the finest generals ever produced but he ultimately committed treason. The confederacy also lost and it just seems so not America-like to honor the losing side in any capacity.
I don't really understand this, I never viewed this as an American value/attitude (we have a statue of Rocky in Philly as I'm sure you know) afterall
. Treason in itself is not inherently evil, to risk invoking Godwin's law, those who commited treason against the third reich are among the first who should have statues minted. I'm not comparing that to Lee, just making a point about treason as a value judgement.I agree with Hooves, I think, that basically the 'we can't forget our history' argument is sort of a red herring. No one really learns history from statues, aside from certain specific contexts (battlefield memorials/museums etc). At the same time, most of these statues are to commemorate people for a specific act or a role in a major event, not generally to say 'this guy was swell!' . Martin Luther King's views on gays for example, would certainly be retrograde today, where does that leave MLK day and the 9 million streets named after him?
I don't really care all that much about the statue argument, again, but I find the vigilantism in destroying these statues en masse, a major problem.
---This message was edited on 07:40PM Jun 28, 2020---
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can - Sun Tzu
Hey Rocky won in the rematch ya know. My last point is how a lot of people I know view America as so far ahead of any other country so it seems weird to openly honor a period or group who didn't match that ideal I guess.
Treason isn't inherently evil but through the lens of hindsight we have, the confederacy are clearly not the heroes of this tale.
In an ideal world they just get placed in museums or something.
MLK obviously is another person with sketchy comments, but like you said, it's all essentially virtue signaling. In this current climate, no one is gonna lay a finger on a statue of MLK or Malcolm X, however justified it may be.
"I need to be myself. I can't be no one else." - Noel Gallagher
Treason isn't inherently evil but through the lens of hindsight we have, the confederacy are clearly not the heroes of this tale.
In an ideal world they just get placed in museums or something.
MLK obviously is another person with sketchy comments, but like you said, it's all essentially virtue signaling. In this current climate, no one is gonna lay a finger on a statue of MLK or Malcolm X, however justified it may be.
"I need to be myself. I can't be no one else." - Noel Gallagher
whoviandeb wrote:
I didn't agree with all of Duke's political views but I liked pretty much all of his movies, though I didn't care for Brannigan that much.
I think the protests are going a bit over board now. The destruction should end and only peaceful rallies.
When you Love someone, Love them with all your heart as you never know what can happen today!
Given RGW's avatar, I'm wondering his opinion about a certain Southern California airport that wants to change its name...
Deb, I saw the same report and it didn't do anything to my mental state. I have driven by it, but never went in it. They can name it anything they want! I didn't agree with all of Duke's political views but I liked pretty much all of his movies, though I didn't care for Brannigan that much.
I think the protests are going a bit over board now. The destruction should end and only peaceful rallies.
When you Love someone, Love them with all your heart as you never know what can happen today!
Why don't the protesters just put up statues of minority group people who have actually done something good that we should honour???
Oh wait... there isn't anyone! Hahaha!
Or maybe even THEY have done evil in their lives. As Tilley might say, let he who has no sin throw the first stone, or something to that effect. We're all just people.
When I look back at places like the Pyramids, the Acropolis and Machu Pichu... many others.. they were made by slaves...perhaps they need to be demolished and blown apart??? After all they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for slavery! Even more recently, like the Taj Mahal. Let's get rid of it all. Blast it all away. And places of Worship. Blast away!
But also consider the workmanship that went into building all those places... made by skilled hands, not machinery. The youth of today doesn't know how to make a packet cake mix, let alone chisel out a statue on the side of a mountain. Or create a masterpiece out of rock.
And when all is destroyed, there will be no-one left to build it.
I really don't care about what happens, or who does what. I'm happy where I am. Live in a nice place. But I feel sorry for the younger generation and what they are doing to themselves.
---This message was edited on 03:03AM Jul 30, 2020---
Snappy Snappy Snap..Snap Snap Snap Snap!
Oh wait... there isn't anyone! Hahaha!
Or maybe even THEY have done evil in their lives. As Tilley might say, let he who has no sin throw the first stone, or something to that effect. We're all just people.
When I look back at places like the Pyramids, the Acropolis and Machu Pichu... many others.. they were made by slaves...perhaps they need to be demolished and blown apart??? After all they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for slavery! Even more recently, like the Taj Mahal. Let's get rid of it all. Blast it all away. And places of Worship. Blast away!
But also consider the workmanship that went into building all those places... made by skilled hands, not machinery. The youth of today doesn't know how to make a packet cake mix, let alone chisel out a statue on the side of a mountain. Or create a masterpiece out of rock.
And when all is destroyed, there will be no-one left to build it.
I really don't care about what happens, or who does what. I'm happy where I am. Live in a nice place. But I feel sorry for the younger generation and what they are doing to themselves.
---This message was edited on 03:03AM Jul 30, 2020---
Snappy Snappy Snap..Snap Snap Snap Snap!
Hello?
HELLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
There were no general discussion posts since June! Is anyone still out there? Does anyone come here anymore?
Sound off, all who visit here! Don't be shy!
**Correction - there were no family room posts in July, but a few in general discussion.
---This message was edited on 08:20PM Aug 3, 2020---
HELLOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
There were no general discussion posts since June! Is anyone still out there? Does anyone come here anymore?
Sound off, all who visit here! Don't be shy!
**Correction - there were no family room posts in July, but a few in general discussion.
---This message was edited on 08:20PM Aug 3, 2020---
Howdy! I visit here, though I don't think I've posted. It's cool to read all the intelligent discussions.
What have you been up to, Paul?
---This message was edited on 11:16AM Aug 4, 2020---
Sunshine glistening, the illumination eyes see forming pictures and pictured Forms. Seeing eyes illuminate the glistening shining sun.
What have you been up to, Paul?
---This message was edited on 11:16AM Aug 4, 2020---
Sunshine glistening, the illumination eyes see forming pictures and pictured Forms. Seeing eyes illuminate the glistening shining sun.
Hi Paul
I still drop in occasionally but not very often. In fact I probably haven't visited on a regular basis for over 10 years. I'd say most users had the same idea unfortunately. It always makes me sad - it's like a popular old haunt that turned into a ghost town (how ironic) - but I'm as much to blame as the next person for creating that situation. As a platform, it hasn't changed whatsoever in the intervening years which is charming but unwise when so many social media formats exist. This place was all about the community that existed rather than the website per se and it just isn't here any longer. Sorry to be so depressing
On a similarly sombre note, can those few of us who do still remain spare a thought for the family of 2020 UK Farmer of the Year, Ron Cropper, who has tragically been killed after being struck by lightning. Fellow farmers and the paramedics described him as being outstanding in his field..........
"If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?" John Cleese
I still drop in occasionally but not very often. In fact I probably haven't visited on a regular basis for over 10 years. I'd say most users had the same idea unfortunately. It always makes me sad - it's like a popular old haunt that turned into a ghost town (how ironic) - but I'm as much to blame as the next person for creating that situation. As a platform, it hasn't changed whatsoever in the intervening years which is charming but unwise when so many social media formats exist. This place was all about the community that existed rather than the website per se and it just isn't here any longer. Sorry to be so depressing
On a similarly sombre note, can those few of us who do still remain spare a thought for the family of 2020 UK Farmer of the Year, Ron Cropper, who has tragically been killed after being struck by lightning. Fellow farmers and the paramedics described him as being outstanding in his field..........
"If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?" John Cleese
I'm still here from time to time...
Snappy Snappy Snap..Snap Snap Snap Snap!
Snappy Snappy Snap..Snap Snap Snap Snap!
FreddyPharkas wrote:
If only he'd been an orchard farmer!
Sunshine glistening, the illumination eyes see forming pictures and pictured Forms. Seeing eyes illuminate the glistening shining sun.
Hi Paul
I still drop in occasionally but not very often. In fact I probably haven't visited on a regular basis for over 10 years. I'd say most users had the same idea unfortunately. It always makes me sad - it's like a popular old haunt that turned into a ghost town (how ironic) - but I'm as much to blame as the next person for creating that situation. As a platform, it hasn't changed whatsoever in the intervening years which is charming but unwise when so many social media formats exist. This place was all about the community that existed rather than the website per se and it just isn't here any longer. Sorry to be so depressing
On a similarly sombre note, can those few of us who do still remain spare a thought for the family of 2020 UK Farmer of the Year, Ron Cropper, who has tragically been killed after being struck by lightning. Fellow farmers and the paramedics described him as being outstanding in his field..........
I still drop in occasionally but not very often. In fact I probably haven't visited on a regular basis for over 10 years. I'd say most users had the same idea unfortunately. It always makes me sad - it's like a popular old haunt that turned into a ghost town (how ironic) - but I'm as much to blame as the next person for creating that situation. As a platform, it hasn't changed whatsoever in the intervening years which is charming but unwise when so many social media formats exist. This place was all about the community that existed rather than the website per se and it just isn't here any longer. Sorry to be so depressing
On a similarly sombre note, can those few of us who do still remain spare a thought for the family of 2020 UK Farmer of the Year, Ron Cropper, who has tragically been killed after being struck by lightning. Fellow farmers and the paramedics described him as being outstanding in his field..........
If only he'd been an orchard farmer!
Sunshine glistening, the illumination eyes see forming pictures and pictured Forms. Seeing eyes illuminate the glistening shining sun.
I too haven't been here frequently for many years. Got two kids all growed up, married off and one grandchild generated so far. Still living in upstate NY working for post office as a technician, but helping others fix things more than fixing them myself.
Too bad Phreddy's lost his keen sense of humor! Good to 'see' you too, Snappy!
Too bad Phreddy's lost his keen sense of humor! Good to 'see' you too, Snappy!
Believe it or not, I am still here too...
I wish I could sleep... but my mind starts to wander, and well, basically, one sheep, two sheep, cow, turtle, duck, Ol McDonald had a farm... HEEEY Macarena!!!
I wish I could sleep... but my mind starts to wander, and well, basically, one sheep, two sheep, cow, turtle, duck, Ol McDonald had a farm... HEEEY Macarena!!!
Howdy, Fish! I'd noticed you'd been lurking around recently. Nice to hear from ya!
I was one who posted here in June. Been around, but I have a major renovation going on in my new home, takes up a lot of time. Finished one area, moved into Living room and dining room, almost done there; then on to the kitchen. May take a month off to relax, but not sure at this time.
It is good to see some of you pop in from time to time... but there are a lot who have not been around for a long time. Too bad!
When you Love someone, Love them with all your heart as you never know what can happen today!
It is good to see some of you pop in from time to time... but there are a lot who have not been around for a long time. Too bad!
When you Love someone, Love them with all your heart as you never know what can happen today!
Yes RGW4... we're here but not here... it's a strange year....
Snappy Snappy Snap..Snap Snap Snap Snap!
Snappy Snappy Snap..Snap Snap Snap Snap!
Happy Autumn! Coming soon, to a town near you.
Not next week Paul, we have a couple days it's suppose to be over 105 degrees. Joy to fall...
When you Love someone, Love them with all your heart as you never know what can happen today!
When you Love someone, Love them with all your heart as you never know what can happen today!
!
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